[Alpine-info] Extensions needed for proper crypto support.

[Mark Crispin]

On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Eduardo Chappa wrote:

> On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Mark Crispin wrote:

> :) [removed text] ... when UW said "Here is Alpine.  Take it over."

> I have read everything that UW has posted in this regard, and not even

> paraphrasing, I can see that UW has said anything similar to that.


It is foolish of you - or anyone else - to expect any announcement from UW 
that states such explicit, blunt words.

Alpine was not a new beginning of email development at UW.  It was an 
ending.  The only new beginning for this code will be what happens outside 
of UW.

It is up to the non-UW Alpine community to make it happen.  Or not.


> Even if

> I was wrong, in practice the code is kept under control by UW


So?  Start a SourceForge repository and fork it.

UW will never give anyone write access to the sources that they use. 
That's just elementary common sense.

Nor are they interested in hosting a public writeable repository.  That 
isn't their mission.


> no one that has access to writing the repository - except Steve et al., of

> course. I am currently 70 updates behind in the repository and have no way

> to update.


You are misled if you arrived at this figure of 70 via svn revision 
numbers.  Any change anywhere in the tree will bump the revision number 
for everything in the tree.

Even if these were all changes in Alpine, 70 revisions (in how long?) is 
not very many.  We go through hundreds daily where I work.


> If there is no development outside UW is because the latest code is not

> available for writing outside UW.


That is silly.  If everybody has that attitude, you might as well all give 
up on Alpine now.

The latest code is Alpine 2.00.  Maybe UW has made a few hacks since then, 
but that is no different than your hacks, or RedHat's hacks, or Debian's 
hacks, or my hacks.


> This is not a criticism on UW itself, what I am saying is that the current

> situation does not lend itself for anyone outside UW to develop Alpine,


Nonsense.


> given that there are no equal-standing positions in this field


So, make it happen.

They gave you, a former student who was never a staff member, a permanent 
staff web page.  *My* staff web page was deleted.

Set up download links.  Set up a SourceForge repository.


> (even though, of course, UW has the best intention to coordinate 

> releases, etc. the current system is not working if what is intended - 

> by this community or UW - is for Alpine still to be developed).


The "coordinate releases" stuff is window dressing, if not outright 
handwaving.

And "best intention" is not a particularly apt term.


> A more open and active development is what is needed, not a new person 

> in charge of the project.


There is NO person in charge of the project.

There may (MAY!!) be another Alpine release from UW after 2.00.  I doubt 
it.

Don't wait for UW to do things for you.  Fork the code.  Set up a 
SourceForge repository.

Or let Alpine die.  It's your choice.

-- Mark --

http://panda.com/mrc
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.