cliffo at u.washington.edu
Sat Jan 18 14:24:16 PST 2003
Perhaps I misstated the point I was trying to make.
I think a lot of people who are interested in linux would prefer to
avoid hitting the vertical learning curve just to get a system running
and functional. If we can install a system that "just works" (i.e.
network, mozilla, openoffice, etc.) then they can poke around and learn
the system at their own pace.
You are correct that Linux still needs "prodding" here and there...all
I'm saying is that we have distros available that don't require that for
simple uses like browsing, email, and such. Once they go to load up
Apache or the latest UT-2003 demo they can dig into prodding all they want.
As I've found, the redhat up2date agent is keeping my system refreshed
with the latest updates. The default "personal desktop" setup works
well and locks down sendmail, telnet, ftp and such. So I would say my
system is secure enough and (at a basic level) easy to use.
Yes, people who lug their boxes across campus are probably going to have
a more than passing interest in linux. But if you start bringing
install cd's to individual places I think you'll find a wide variance in
the technical abilities and technical interest of the "customers". You
don't have to be an engineering or science major to run linux and have
fun with it.
A. Mathes wrote:
>exactly ... I am MORE than willing to help anyone who has ANY interest in
>learning, just not someone who "wants a working box that just works."
>Sorry, but Linux ISN"T to that point yet, and they'll just end up hating
>it. How many people on this list are running linux and haven't "prodded"
>it at all? I'm guessing none. And if they haven't ... then they're
>probably running a badly insecure and terrible install of RH8 or
>something. Which they will also hate.
>I understand help helps ... that's why i offered to let people do this in
>On Sat, 18 Jan 2003, Charles F. Munat wrote:
>>Linux distros are erasing the gap rapidly, but Linux is still a system
>>that requires one to get under the hood occasionally. This does not make
>>it a "better" OS (other things do, IMO), but it is still not the OS for
>>Andrew is not being elitist, he's simply admitting that fact. Just
>>because you, Jen, are "adventurous" doesn't mean everyone is. Most
>>people aren't, in fact. They want their computers to just work, with no
>>That said, such people are unlikely to lug their boxes all the way
>>across campus to get Linux installed. I think we can assume that those
>>who show up have some idea what they're signing up for. And if we have
>>any doubt, we can just tell them what to look out for ahead of time.
>>Jen Barrick wrote:
>>>>also unfortunately ... these are the people we probably don't want to help
>>>>yet, because sorry to say, but no linux distro can be set up to just "work
>>>>and work well" without any flaws ... and if they don't care to tinker with
>>>>it, it probably won't work out for them in the long run and they'll end up
>>>Oh, way to be freaking elitist. You all wonder why your precious
>>>operating system isn't getting the share it deserves? It's attitudes just
>>>like this! People may be afraid to start running Linux (BSD, whatever)
>>>because they don't know where to get started... but you give them a
>>>working box, and they'll start pushing here, prodding there. They'll
>>>start, you know, LEARNING. You shouldn't look down on them just because
>>>they weren't as adventurous as you in the first place.
>>>I'd have never started running Linux if Richard hadn't given me a hand,
>>>and admittedly, there's still a lot of things I come running about.
>>>Sure, newbies that you set a system up for may end up hating it, or asking
>>>"silly" questions for several months, and your precious time will have
>>>been wasted. Oh boo fucking hoo. Or your helping hand at the beginning
>>>may inspire them to find out what makes unix systems so great.
>>>Argh... this is disjointed and rambling, but Andrew hits upon one of the
>>>most frustrating things in the Linux world for me.
>>>Particularly bad since a LUG is supposed to be where newbies come for
>>>help, not where they get told that they're not worth the effort.
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