Gripe against OSX [ was Re: osx talk meeting notes ]
kolbe at u.washington.edu
Thu Jan 23 23:14:42 PST 2003
Man, all i know is that transparent shit is *COOL*. COOOOL. i'm serious,
too i love the eye candy and all this swirling window stuff and
transparency as a function of some low level operating aqua pdf system,
that can only be good news.
i never even thought of the actual filesystem used, that's an
interesting point since one of the kickass things about unix for me is
the way it handles its filesystem. can you make symlinks and that sort
of thing in the same way on their HFS+? so you could just symlink /usr
to /Applications, etc? but you're right dude, it's pretty gay ;)
i think Apple clearly has some work to do regarding their integration
between the unix and aqua parts of the system, but generally i think
that, like the man said, porting applications has been pretty
straightforward. so they must be able to cope well enough with the
bizarre directory structure. and as long as tab filename completion
works, i don't care how long and strange the directory names are :)
another big reason that i'm interested in os x (in addition to the
transparency) is that all this crap you plug in is supposed to just
work. that's essentially the opposite of what i've been dealing with on
linux. see, on linux i take the approach "this is not going to work in
my computer" but then it usually does after 3 or 4 days of work.
however, i also like the idea of plugging it in and using it 3 or 4
seconds later. i don't like the windows middle ground approach where you
have to go through 8 or 13 reboots and try to figure out what all these
ridiculous devices popping up left and right actually *are*.
what do you mean by quality control for the Xserves? like they're
actually manufactured poorly so that they have faulty components in them
often? i wasn't too impressed with the way he kept emphasizing that
"THESE HAVE THE *CHEAP* HARD DRIVES IN THEM. not scsi, but the cheap
ide". and i was like damn man stop calling them cheap you crazy bastard,
that's not how you sell stuff!
Linux Torvalds... nice :)
'The Buddha' Doug McLean escribió::
>Speaking of the "unix" filesystem that MacOSX employs, my experience thus
>far is that it basically sucks. First, the layout is unintuitive, and all
>the standard directories one sees among the Unices are largely missing, or
>have totally different names. For example:
>/usr -> /Applications
>/home -> /Users
>/mnt -> /Volumes (this one also includes locally mounted partitions)
>How gay is that?
>Second, Apple's HFS+ filesystem doesn't play well with more traditional
>Unix filesystems because HFS+ uses a very different method of storing
>files. Normally you see some sort of inode or vnode pointing to a region
>of the disk, but on HFS+, the file is actually split up into raw data and
>icon-type info. That doesn't sound too different, but when trying to get
>AppleTalk or just scp working on a unix filesystem, the problems is that
>these two things (raw data and icon) get treated as _seperate_ files, each
>with its own inode. It really makes dealing with cross-platform file
>serving very ugly.
>Lastly, this is not related to filesystems, but I just wanted to say
>Apple's LDAP sucks too. Its totally non-standard and the only way to get
>it working in a non-Apple environment is in the advanced options. You
>have to force it to use Unix-style LDAP (as stated in
>RFC-something-or-other). Even Windows does LDAP better through Active
>Directory. Its just another example of how Apple "thinks differently"
>(clearly for the worse).
>Don't even get me started on the Xserves (hoo boy). The quality control
>is surprisingly lacking.
>Now I understand my Linux Torvalds says OS X sucks...
>Department of Microbiology
>PGP Public Key ID# 0xF96E92D8
>Meanwhile, in Gotham, Kolbe Kegel wrote:
>>yeah i went to the MacOSX thing, and i couldn't really figure out what
>>the point of the talk really even was. and i was disappointed with his
>>use of Keynote thing... he could've at least attempted to make a decent
>>looking presentation out of it to showcase its capabilities. i was
>>sitting next to the guy that asked the question about navigating the
>>underlying unix filesystem graphically (he's a friend of mine, and he
>>subscribes to this list, too) and i thought it was a little ridiculous
>>that this guy who was supposedly showcasing the interoperability of
>>MacOSX GUI with the UNIX foundation couldn't figure out how to use said
>>GUI to navigate said filesystem. oh well.. this happens.
>>at any rate, i want to buy one of the new 12" powerbooks just as badly
>>now as i did before!
>>Evan Martin escribi?::
>>>I was pretty disappointed by the OS X talk, so I'm sorry if you went and
>>>felt like it was a waste of time... quite often, the CS talks are pretty
>>>technical and really interesting.
>>>But afterwards we had a sort of mini-LUG meeting there between me,
>>>Richard, and Cere, in which it was determined that no, nobody actually
>>>knows anything about Jython. ;)
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