[Nwfsc] Re: name change to Ecosystem Soils??
robh
robh at u.washington.edu
Wed Jul 14 11:31:49 PDT 2004
> From: Rich Bowden <rbowden at allegheny.edu>
> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2004 09:11:28 -0400
> To: "robh" <robh at u.washington.edu>
> Subject: name change to Ecosystem Soils??
>
> Rob -
>
> For posting to the group:
>
>
> Good question regarding the name change to include wildlands - what is a
> wildland? And, where then, is room for urban, suburban soils?
>
> Seems we're entering a lumping vs. splitting dilemma. I fear that if we try
> to be specifically inclusive in the title, then we'll end up with a long and
> cumbersome title. So, what if we go to a title of "Ecosystem Soils", which
> would include forest, range, wildland, urban, and suburban soils. As soil
> scientists, we often learn about soil processes that occur in ecosystems
> outside our normal area of interest, and it would be useful to have all
> ecosystems in on place. There is the issue of leaving out wetland soils, but
> given the specific nature of those soil processes, there seems good reason to
> leave them in their own division.
>
> A thought for consideration....
>
> Rich Bowden
>
>
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>> From: "Lawrence O Safford" <lsaffordnh at earthlink.net>
>> To: "S-7 Soils" <forsoils at u.washington.edu>, "robh" <robh at u.washington.edu>
>> Subject: Re: [Forsoils] Next Issue: S-7 name
>> Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2004 8:45:44 -0400
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>> Anyone care to come up with a definition for "Wildland"? Is it based on
>> size? location? use? all of the above? Would "non-agricultural" and
>> "non-urban" be synonyms?
>>
>> Where do "wetlands" fit in? Here in New Hampshire just about every forest
>> area has inclusions of "wetland" that impact harvesting and management
>> practices. These "welands" are a huge impediment for developers.
>>
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>> [Original Message]
>>> From: robh <robh at u.washington.edu>
>>> To: S-7 Soils <forsoils at u.washington.edu>
>>> Date: 07/01/2004 11:29:15 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Forsoils] Next Issue: S-7 name
>>>
>>> All;
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Including "and Range" in the "Forest and Range Soils" was sort of a
>>
>>> last-minute addition to attract an important but even-then relatively
>> small
>>
>>> community to the SSSA. It seems it was as simple as a last-minute
>> ammendment
>>
>>> that was voted in with little discussion. That is the way the minutes from
>>
>>> that time read. I'll try and dig them up after I get back to Seattle on
>> July
>>
>>> 14.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Remember that the creation of SSSA divisions was always was about creating
>>
>>> an identity in the SSSA for people that didn't find a home in the existing
>>
>>> divisions. Pragmatism and the growth of SSSA was the order of the day in
>>
>>> those discussions. That dynamism is important in SSSA today, as evidenced
>> by
>>
>>> the growth of the new divisions.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The first author of that history, Stan Gessel, who participated in those
>>
>>> original discussions, had a substantial education and interest in range
>>
>>> management. This continued until his death, even though he is most
>>
>>> recognized for his contributions forest soils.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> The idea of inclusion of "range" probably hasn't panned out the way the
>>
>>> people who voted for the name originally hoped, but I think all of us
>> agree
>>
>>> that the people that do participate add positively to our division,
>>
>>> particularly given the fire hazards we now face in many of our forests
>> that
>>
>>> didn't exist in a forest/range mix.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> I am a strong supporter of adding "wildland" to the mix. I think this is
>> an
>>
>>> excellent idea that only reflects what many of us already do.
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Rob
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> From: Travis Idol <idol at hawaii.edu>
>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:29:36 -1000
>>
>>>> To: forsoils at u.washington.edu
>>
>>>> Subject: RE: [Forsoils] Next Issue: S-7 name
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Thanks Steven for providing the link the the "Short History" article. I
>>
>>>> think there is plenty of justification in the article for the existence
>>
>>>> of S-7 as it concerns forest management. I can think of 3 reasons why
>>
>>>> S-7 is important to retain and why including "Wildland Soils" may be
>>
>>>> appropriate.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> 1) Perennial vegetation communities: plant-soil interactions are quite
>>
>>>> different when the plants attempt to survive for more than one growing
>>
>>>> season.
>>
>>>> 2) Extensive management: most forest and range systems do not come under
>>
>>>> the type of intensive management typical of row-crop agriculture or even
>>
>>>> orchard systems. Plantation forestry is an exception, but it still
>>
>>>> represents a small proportion of the world's "working forests" by area.
>>
>>>> 3) Native ecosystems: the soils being put under the plow today developed
>>
>>>> under conditions very different than what they are being subjected to.
>>
>>>> Understanding these systems is critical for evaluating the suitability
>>
>>>> of various management options and the sustainability of current
>>
>>>> management activities.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Travis Idol
>>
>>>> University of Hawaii-Manoa
>>
>>>> 1910 East West Rd.
>>
>>>> Honolulu, HI 96822
>>
>>>> Tel. 956-7508
>>
>>>> Fax. 956-6539
>>
>>>> idol at hawaii.edu
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>>>> From: forsoils-bounces at mailman.u.washington.edu
>>
>>>> [mailto:forsoils-bounces at mailman.u.washington.edu] On Behalf Of Stephen
>>
>>>> Colbert
>>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:43 AM
>>
>>>> To: 'forsoils at u.washington.edu'
>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Forsoils] Next Issue: S-7 name
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Nick: The proposal to change S-7 name makes me curious about the reasons
>>
>>>> for development of S-7 division in the first place.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> According to "A Short History of Forest Soils Research and and
>>
>>>> Development in North America" by Gessel and Harrison
>>
>>>> (http://www.forestsoils.org/S-7/HistForSoilNA.html), S-7 was added to
>>
>>>> the original six SSSA divisions in 1954. Before that, Forest Soils had
>>
>>>> been organized as Division V-A under the original SSSA Division V --
>>
>>>> Soil Genesis, Morphology, & Cartography.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Perhaps it would be worthwhile to revisit the reasons behind creating
>>
>>>> S-7 in the first place as we discuss whether adding "Wildland Soils" is
>>
>>>> appropriate.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> IN the meantime, I'll have to run to the library and get a copy of one
>>
>>>> of the references from Gessel and Harrison's short history: Stone, E.L.
>>
>>>> 1986. Some highlights of Division S-7, Forest and Range Soils. Soil Sci.
>>
>>>> Soc. Am. J. 50:1094-1095.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> Steve Colbert
>>
>>>> Manager, Environmental Services
>>
>>>> American Forest Management
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>>>> From: "Comerford, Nick B." <NBC at mail.ifas.ufl.edu>
>>
>>>> Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:12:04 -0400
>>
>>>> To: "'forsoils at u.washington.edu'" <forsoils at u.washington.edu>
>>
>>>> Subject: [Forsoils] Next Issue: S-7 name
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> Dear folks,
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> At our last S-7 business meeting, there was a suggestion to change the
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> name
>>
>>>>> from:
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> Forest and Range Soils
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> to
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> Forest, Range and Wildland Soils
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> My feeling is that this is a good thing. If you look at the
>>
>>>>> membership trends and the type of work that is often presented at the
>>
>>>>> S-7 meetings you see two things. First, we suffered a bit with the
>>
>>>>> development of the last two divisions, but not as much as other
>>
>>>>> divisons. Second, wildland soils should include the higher elevation
>>
>>>>> lands as well as other extensively managed lands that the other
>>
>>>> divisions do not consider.
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> So the next topic for discussion and an eventual vote is: should we
>>
>>>>> change the name as suggested. I see two issues here. First, what is
>>
>>>>> the defintion of a wildland so we all know what we are talking about
>>
>>>>> and so we can communicate this to SSSA? Second, what do you think
>>
>>>>> about the name change?
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> Regarding the priorities, give me a day or two to summarize everything
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>>> and present it to y'all. I have lost me email here in Brazil, so
>>
>>>>> things a bit more of a chore than they were. But in a short time I
>>
>>>>> will summarize and send.
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>> Nick Comerford _______________________________________________
>>
>>>>> Forsoils mailing list
>>
>>>>> Forsoils at u.washington.edu
>>
>>>>> http://mailman.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/forsoils
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>>> Forsoils mailing list
>>
>>>> Forsoils at u.washington.edu
>>
>>>> http://mailman.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/forsoils
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>>> Forsoils mailing list
>>
>>>> Forsoils at u.washington.edu
>>
>>>> http://mailman.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/forsoils
>>
>>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
>>
>> --- Lawrence O Safford
>> --- lsaffordnh at earthlink.net
>> --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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> <+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+><+~+>
> Richard Drew Bowden, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
> Department of Environmental Science
> Chair, Executive Committee, PA Consortium for Interdisciplinary Environmental
> Policy
> 520 N. Main St.
> Allegheny College
> Meadville, PA 16335
> phone 814-332-2869
> fax 814-332-2789
> rbowden at allegheny.edu
> http://merlin.alleg.edu/employee/r/rbowden/
> http://www.paconsortium.state.pa.us/
>
> "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up
> and hurry off as if nothing had happened." Winston Churchill
>
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